- Theology and Identity
- Season 2
- Episode 9
- Airdate: 25 July, 2025
- Please note this is a script, and not a transcript. There may be slight differences between this text and the actual broadcast.
- All Bible quotations taken from the English Standard Version (Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles, 2016)
Audio Links:
_________________________________________________________________
In popular culture, there are generally 2 ways that evil is portrayed. On the one hand, evil is presented as a faceless, disembodied power that floats all around us. Think about The Dark Side of the force in Star Wars. It’s out there. It mysteriously draws people in. But it doesn’t have any shape or form. Even though there are people who are entirely sold out to the Dark Side, there is no Satan or demons or evil spirits behind it. And the people like Darth Vader, aka Anakin Skywalker, is not by nature evil. At any moment he can choose to resist the dark side, and go back to being good.
On the other hand, evil is often portrayed as something that is personified. This is to say, its not just a force thast out there trying to draw us in. Rather, there’s a spiritual being who is by nature evil. For him, there’s no choice, there’s no going back. Evil is what this person is - and his very existence threatens our well being. In Western pop culture, I think one of the classic examples of this kind of person is Brahm Stoker’s Dracula.
The question that we want to consider today is this: which expression of evil is best reflected in the teachings of Jesus? When Jesus taught his followers to pray for deliverance from evil, was he thinking of evil as a faceless power in the world, a disembodied dark force? Or was he thinking of evil as personified in a bad spiritual being like Satan?
Is the correct translation of Jesus’ words, ‘deliver us from evil’?
Or should it be ‘deliver us from the evil one’?
At stake in this question is the possibility that billions of Christians who pray the LP may in fact be saying it wrong. Most churches say the prayer as ‘deliver us from evil’. But there are some very good translations of the Bible that translate this phrase in MT 6:13 as ‘deliver us from the evil one.’ If these translations are correct, than many Christians not praying the LP as Jesus taught it. It might seem like a minor issue, but today we’ll see that the difference in meaning between these 2 translations is actually very significant.
I’m Dr David Clark. . .
In season 2, we’ve been working our way through the LP to explore what it tells us about ourselves, and what it tells us about God. This is our last episode on the LP, because technically in the gospels, this is where the LP ends. The final declarations ‘for the kingdom and the owe and the glory are yours’ was added on much later.
But back to the question: should we pray ‘deliver us from evil’ thinking about evil as a disembodied power? Or should we pray ‘deliver us from the evil one’ thinking about evil as person, namely Satan?
Unfortunately, the grammar of the biblical text itself doesn’t give us a clear answer. The phrase ‘deliver us from evil’ found in Mt 6:13, reads like this:
ἀλλὰ ῥῦσαι ἡμᾶς ἀπὸ τοῦ πονηροῦ
(alla rhysai hēmas apo tou ponērou)
“but deliver us from tou ponerou.”
We want to know: Does "τοῦ πονηροῦ" mean "evil" in general, or does it mean "the evil one"
Grammatically, both options are possible. The phrase tou ponerou can be translated in the neuter form as ‘evil’ or in the masculine form as ‘the evil one’.
If we go with the neuter form , then the translation is ‘deliver us from evil’ and this is how it appears in translations like the King James version, or the ESV. In this case, evil refers to a general force or power. The emphasis is on the impersonal, or systemic nature of evil.
If however, we go with the masculine form, then the translation is ‘deliver us from the evil one’ as we find in the NIV and the NRSV.
Grammatically, there is no way to determine which one is right.
So we’ve got to approach it from a different angle,
I am going to argue that when Christians pray the LP they should say ‘deliver us from the evil one’.
My rationale for taking this position is that this understanding is most consistent with the teachings of Jesus, theologically it’s the most coherent option, and it’s the understanding that best resonates with human experience.
So here are the three points were going to look at today.
- First, I’m going to talk about why the personification of evil best resonates with human experience.
- Second, I’m going to explain why the de-personified understanding of evil, from a theological perspective just doesn’t work
- And then finally, we’re going to look at what Jesus himself had to say about the personification of evil.
So we start with human experience. Here, I’m going to return to the metaphors of Star Wars and Dracula, and - drawing from my own understanding of evil – I’ll explain why I’m really afraid of one, and not that afraid of the other.
Let’s start with Star Wars.
To establish my authority on the subject, I will note that I was there when it all began. The first Star Wars movie was released in 1977, just 2 weeks after my 9th birthday, and from the beginning I was mesmerised. I’m not sure if this still happens today, but in the 1970s when we went to the movie theatre, we wouldn’t just watch a movie once. If it was a good film we would usually watch it through twice. And if it happened that your mom forgot to pick you up (as once happened to me), you might be watching the same movie the whole day.
Anyway – at its first theatrical release, I remember being very proud of the fact that I had seen Star Wars 7 times. Today, I actually have no idea how many times I’ve seen it.
Now as much as I loved the first movie, and some of the episodes that have followed, I have to admit that this whole idea of the Force has always struck me as vague, a bit confusing, and not very compelling. Regarding the Dark Side of the Force, to be honest, I never found the whole thing all that scary.
To help me with my confusion, I asked Chat GPT to what the Dark Side of the force is all about, and this was the answer:
The Dark Side of the Force in Star Wars represents the corrupting, destructive use of the Force driven by fear, anger, hatred, and the desire for power. Unlike the Light Side, which seeks harmony and selflessness, the Dark Side is fueled by emotion and control. It tempts users with strength and dominance but ultimately enslaves them. It’s not just an individual choice but a cosmic force that seduces and twists character, turning Jedi into Sith. The Dark Side symbolizes how giving in to inner darkness can lead to personal ruin and widespread suffering across the galaxy.
This doesn’t scare me. But just to check that I wasn’t missing anything I asked ChatGPT ‘Is it scary’ and this was the answer:
Yes, the Dark Side of the Force is meant to be scary—not just because of the villains who wield it, like Darth Vader or Palpatine, but because of what it represents. It’s terrifying in a deeper, psychological sense: it shows how anyone, even a hero like Anakin Skywalker, can be slowly corrupted by fear, anger, and the desire for control. It’s seductive, offering power and clarity in chaos, but it comes at the cost of your identity, relationships, and soul.
I like the little disclaimer that ChatGPT gave here, its ‘meant to be scary’. But the truth is, apologies to George Lucas - its really not that scary. Was I ever kept awake at night agonising over the way Anakin Skywalker was slowly corrupted by fear, anger and the desire for control? As 9 yr old, was I terrified by the idea that I might be seduced by a power that would rob me of my identity and my relationships? I don’t think so.
And this leads to me a broader observation about the nature of evil. A depersonalised, disembodied expression of evil – while perhaps being intellectually appealing - does not weigh heavily on human consciousness. We’re not afraid of abstract evil powers. We’re afraid of evil people.
And this leads me to the story of Dracula, which is an example of personified evil. And in my view, this is genuine terror.
As a kid, I actually had fun with the character of Dracula. My mom tells me that I would put on a black cape, and form a little point with my bangs, put on my plastic fangs, and go up to people saying ‘I want to bite to your neck.’
But of course this was all based on the mild, antiquated, Bella Lugosi version of Dracula. As I got older, and I reflected mores seriously on the character of Dracula, the whole story filled me with dread. As darker and more serious interpretations of the story came out, like FF Coppola’s 1992 film, I just stayed away. I couldn’t watch them then and I cant watch them now.
But the book is a different matter.
Several years ago I subscribed to a book club called Easton Press’s 100 greatest books of all time. Every month, a book would arrive at my door. And sure enough, one day the book that came was Bram Stoker’s original novel Dracula, originally published in 1897. Now of course that black leather book looked great on my bookshelf, but I didn’t plan to actually read it. I might try to read the other 99 titles, but there was no way that I was going to touch Dracula. And so it sat on my shelf, for probably 30 years.
And then, just last year, I made the big decision. The time had finally come to read Dracula.
I wish I could say that I just decided to stop being so childish. But the truth is, I was nervous about this and as I set out on this task, I had to set some guidelines for myself: I wouldn’t read it before going to bed. I would just read one chapter at a time. And if necessary I would put on church choral music in the background.
And I can say in retrospect that I’m really glad that I took these precautions. The book was totally consuming and absolutely terrifying. I didn’t have nightmares, but I do remember waking up once in the middle of the night. In a half-dazed state of consciousness I wondered if Dracula might be trying to get into my house. I then remembered that Dracula cannot pass through walls or windows. As my windows were closed, I was OK - and I went back to sleep.
I did finally finish the book, and I have to say its one of the best-written books I’ve ever read. I loved the fact that so much of it happens in London and towns not far away from where I live. And I think I’ll read it again. But before I do, I want to better understand why it’s so stinking scary.
As I think about it, it comes down to the fact that Dracula is a person. He’s a really evil man. And that is something that keeps us awake at night. Even with my university educated, PhD mind – in my subconscious I feared the possibility of having an encounter with him.
Dracula doesn’t just influence or tempt people. He comes to you in the night, when your asleep, when you’re vulnerable. He comes to drink your blood again and again, and then over time, you become like him. You join the company of the undead, forever. And your own survival depends on your success at preying upon other people.
Dracula is a shapeshifter. He can become a wolf, a bat. You might think you’ve found a way to protect yourself from him, but your defenses won’t work. You might think that you’ve found a way to destroy him, but he’s always one step ahead of you.
Count Dracula is evil in human form. He has a will, a plan, a strategy and he’s coming for you.
This is the expression of evil that keeps people up at night. This is what stirs up our fears in a way that Darth Vader and the Dark Side of the Force could never match. We’re not afraid of evil force fields, we’re afraid of evil beings.
And this is one of the reasons why I think that evil, as it really exists in the world, is personified. Belief in the existence of malevolent evil spirits is one the most commonly encountered elements of human culture, in the world today and across human history. I did a bit of research on this, and found that there is no known indigenous culture that entirely lacks some concept of malevolent or disruptive spiritual forces.
So we have to ask ourselves the question: is the predominance of belief in personified evil just a product of the human imagination? Or might it be the case that humanity’s predominant primal fear of evil beings somehow serves as evidence that these spirits are real?
Personally, I do not believe that the universal fear of evil spirits and malevolent beings is simply a psychological construct. Rather, I believe that in this instance, our fears have an epistemological value. That is, our fear of evil spirits is a subconscious indicator of that which is real.
This is a phenomenological understanding of religious experience. And its not considered a fringe or wacko idea. Phenomenology validates first-person religious experience as a legitimate source of knowledge. That’s the basis of my reasoning here.
And that is the first reason that I believe in personified, rather than non-personified evil. The reality of evil beings resonates with the human experience. Phenomenologically speaking, our fear of evil beings points to the idea that they may actually be real.
The second argument I’ll present in support of personified evil is that the opposing arguments - theologically speaking - just don’t seem to hold water.
I just read a really interesting article by Father Louis Roy entitled ‘Evil and the Demonic’. Overall, this is a great article that seeks to define evil, and explore how evil becomes manifest in human behaviour. But one thing that Roy is very clear about is that he does not believe in the personification of evil as the Devil or demons.
Rather, he describes these characters as the objects of psychological projections. He argues that when confronted with the enormity of evil in the world, people find it necessary to project all this badness onto something or someone. He concludes that ‘Satan language is a “mythic” personification of collective human evil.’ This is to say, that humans invented characters like Satan and demons so as to give shape and form - personhood – to something that they knew was real but couldn’t explain.
Roy argues that scientific knowledge has moved on from this kind of primitive thinking. But he still believes that evil is a real, actual category of human behaviour. And so he asks the question ‘ why can’t we de-personify evil and at the same time continue to focus on its massive impact in the drama of the human race? ‘
And this is a really interesting question. What changes about our understanding of evil if we take away the idea of Satan and demons and evil spirits, and just think about evil as the multidimensional activity of humans hurting other humans? Is the existence of Satan and the demons really necessary for the perpetuation of evil, or would evil human behaviour continue along just fine without them?
My answer to that question is that YES - the existence of Satan and the demons are necessary to the human understanding of evil because these beings objectify evil as an external reality. I’ll unpack this:
- First, the existence of Satan and demons demonstrates, in a concrete way, that evil choices disfigure and ruin the existence of spiritual persons that God created as good.
- Second, the existence of Satan and demons demonstrates that spiritual persons who have been overtaken by evil will become a malevolent influence in the world. Through them, evil will spread to others like a lethal virus.
- And finally, their existence is a concrete way to understand the origins of evil. In the biblical worldview, acting contrary to God’s guidance for human life, and acting in a way that opposes his purpose in creation IS the definition of evil. Satan and the demons did this, and through their actions evil came into the universe.
So in sum, the existence of Satan and the demons
- Illuminates a concrete, historical understanding on the origin of evil.
- Illuminates the objective nature of evil as malevolence that seeks to dominate and destroy all life
- Demonstrates the objective consequences of evil actions as disfigurement, distortion, separation and death.
When you take away Satan and the demons, you de-objectivise evil. You remove its status as an independent, external reality. Its no longer an actual thing or being. It becomes something that exists only inside of us, as a subjective experience, perception, or social construction.
For Roy, evil is all about people hurting other people.
But the question I have to ask is this: who gets to define that which constitutes hurtful behaviour?
Now of course we all agree that genocide and sexual violence are always wrong. They’re evil. But in today’s world, people are putting the tag of ‘harmful behaviour’ on a lot of activities that may hurt other people’s feelings, but which can dubiously be categorised as ‘evil.’ Here are some examples to consider:
- Is cultural appropriation, like using the image of a Native American as a team mascot, evil?
- Is it evil to support the deportation of a person who entered a country illegally?
- Is it evil if a person refuses to address another person by their preferred pronoun?
- Is it evil to give preference to an under-represented minority when an employer is seeking to fill a job vacancy?
How you answer any of these questions will be shaped by your own worldview and your own experiences. And in places like America, there will be a lot of disagreement over these issues. Whereas I’m not going to dive in on any of these questions, I hope I’ve made it clear that the character of evil is contested. Its subjective. It changes from person to person to person to person, generation to generation, and culture to culture.
The concept of evil in Western society has become, in many cases, subjective, open to debate. And I believe part of the reason this is happening is because evil has been de-personified. When you take away the reality of Satan and demons, evil becomes de-objectified and subjective.
So going back to Roy’s question , I would argue that the reason we can’t de-personify evil is because when take away the objective reality of evil beings, then the constitution of that which is evil in our world simply becomes a question of human experience and debate.
And so to sum up my second point - from a theological perspective, the de-personification of evil inevitably leads to the de-objectivization of evil as an external reality. When you de-objectivise evil, then it becomes subjective. That is, when you take away the reality of Satan and demons, the whole notion of evil collapses into human personal interpretation.
And so we now we can move on to our 3rd point, and that is what Jesus himself had to say about the personification of evil.
When Jesus talked about evil, did he think if it as an impersonal dark force, or did he think of it as something that is personified?
Looking at this question across the gospels, it is clear that Jesus consistently accepts and assumes a worldview in which Satan is a real, cosmic adversary with a kingdom opposed to God’s reign.
For Jesus, evil was personified in the person of Satan and his followers. As a result of their activities, evil has become pervasive in the world. His influence and his power are evident not only in individual human behaviour, but in the way the systems and structures of the world operate.
Let’s look at some examples:
In Jn 8:44 Jesus explains a bit of Satan’s back story. The text reads: ‘He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.’
And what exactly does Satan do, according to the Gospels?
- In all 3 synoptic gospels we find the account of Satan tempting Jesus in the wilderness
- In the parable of the sower, Jesus describes Satan as the ‘evil one’ who snatches the word from people’s hearts, and who sows weeds in the field of their relationship with God.
- When Jesus rebuked Peter for suggesting that he could avoid suffering, Jesus said ‘Get behind me Satan.’
- When Judas betrayed Jesus, the Gospels say ‘Satan entered into Judas’
- When Jesus spoke to his disciples about the pending trials they would face, he said ‘Satan has demanded permission to sift you all like wheat’
What we see in all of these examples is that Jessus saw Satan as a real spiritual being who is actively at work to oppose the purposes of the Father in the world.
But Jesus also believed that Satan had developed a universal structure through which evil was being perpetuated. And that’s why in passages like Jn 12:31 Jesus refers to Satan as ‘the ruler of this world.’
To sum it up, it would take a pretty creative interpretation of the Gospels to support that argument that Jesus didn’t believe in the reality of Satan and Demons. If we believe that these texts are an accurate account of what Jesus said and did, then there’s no way around the fact he believed that evil is personified in the person of Satan and the demons.
So we’ve covered our 3 points:
- We’ve talked about how the personification of evil resonates with human experience
- We’ve talked about the theological implications of de-personifying evil
- And we’ve looked at what the Gospels have to say about the personification of evil.
We are now ready go back to the LP. All of the evidence seems to point in the direction of saying this petition as ‘deliver us from the evil one’ that is Satan.
Now today when Christians pray it the other way ‘deliver us from evil’, thinking of evil in a de-personified way, this isn’t theologically wrong or dangerous. Asking the Father to deliver us from evil can be construed as a request for:
- Strength to resist the evil influences of the society and the world. For example, ‘Help me not to be influenced by all the hatred and selfishness I see around me.’
- It can be construed as a request for Strength to resist evil desires in the human heart. For example, ‘Help me not to be sexually lustful.’
- And it can be construed as a request for Protection from the harm and damage this brought about by systemic evil. For example ‘Save me from being the victim of government corruption’
There’s nothing wrong with this understanding of ‘deliver us from evil’, but in my analysis, all of these requests have already been covered at other places in the LP. If you’ve followed me through this season of podcasts, then you know that
- Strength to resist the evil influences of the world sinful desires of the human heart is already covered in the petitions ‘hallowed be your name’ and ‘lead us not into temptation.’
- Protection from the harm and damage this brought about by systemic evil is already covered in ‘Let your kingdom come’
Everything that many Christians think they’re asking for in ‘deliver us from evil’ has already been covered in other petitions.
The only thing that’s really been missing in this prayer, up until this point, is mention of Satan. And that’s why I believe that the intention of Jesus was for this petition to be understood as ‘deliver us from the evil one.’ That is, ‘deliver us from the works of Satan and his demons.’
If you stick with what Jesus has had to say about Satan in the gospels, this means:
- Don’t let Satan trick me into doing something that is contrary to the Father’s will and ways.
- Don’t’ let Satan snatch the word of God from my heart or plant weeds in the field of my love for God.
- Don’t let Satan trick me into choosing the easy path, when it’s the hard path that I’ve been called to follow.
- Don’t let Satan come into my heart and mind in such a way that I would betray Jesus.
- And don’t let Satan sift me like wheat
And it can mean so much more.
Now let me clarify that when we pray ‘deliver us from the evil one’ we’re not claiming that Satan is to be blamed for human sin. Satan is not a scapegoat. Sin, in the teachings of Jesus, is always a human choice. But Jesus does want his followers to be aware that Satan is a fallen being, and that he and his demons are always trying to bring Christians down. Jesus therefore teaches his followers to pray for protection against the works of Satan every day of their lives.
So lets sum everything up and bring this episode to a close.
As the final instalment in our study on the LP, we’ve been asking how should the final petition be prayed.
Is it ‘deliver us from evil’ or is it ‘deliver us from the evil one’ ?
Looking at the Greek grammar, we’ve seen that both translations are possible. So we have to take a different approach.
To find an answer to the question, we’ve been looking at the nature of evil itself.
If we understand evil as a general force, a faceless , de-personified power like the ‘dark side of the force’, then the petition should be ‘deliver us from evil.
If we believe that evil is personified in Satan and his demons, then the petition should be ‘deliver us from the evil one’
In this episode, I have argued for the second option. I have argued for the personification of evil on the following grounds.
- First, the personification of evil resonates with human experience. Dracula is scary. Darth Vader is not.
- Second, I have argued that when evil is de-personified, it becomes de-objectivised. And if evil is de-objectivised, then it just becomes a subjective human construct. By maintaining the idea that evil is personified in Satan as his demons, the objective nature of evil is upheld.
- And finally, we’ve seen that there is an abundance of passages in the Gospels where Jesus himself sees Satan as the personification of evil. Since the work of Satan loomed so largely in the experience and teachings of Jesus, it just makes sense that Jesus would teach his followers to pray, ‘deliver us from the evil one’, meaning Satan.
So, if you’re among the billions of people in the world who still believe in the reality of Satan and demons, I hope this episode has helped you to see that you’re not a backwards ignoramus. There is solid ground to stand on, phenomenologically, theologically, and biblically.
If you are a follower of Jesus, as I am - then we need to understand that Jesus has shown us what its like to walk in daily awareness of the works of the evil one. And he has commanded us to pray, ‘deliver us from him.'
And that will bring this final episode of season 2 to a close.